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Christian Medical Care - Nutters
Posted by Jeff (Sunday August 14 2005 @ 11:08AM EDT)
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Want to save money on health insurance?
- Do you have a signed affidavit to verify your personal relationship with Jesus H. Christ?
- Do you abstain from drugs including the legal ones?
- Do you engage in married Christian sex with one foot on the floor at all times?
If you answered yes to all these questions, then Medi-Share Bible-based Health Care could undo the damage of your parenting techniques if only this plan provided psychiatric care. On average, Medi-Share customers save between two and four thousand dollars a year. Why? Because anything deemed a non-Christian ailment isn't covered.
Let's say you contact AIDS. At your lowest moment, your need for health insurance reaches crescendo. Under the Medi-Share plan, our claims adjusters will issue a big FSCK YOU for Jesus unless you can demonstrate the disease was contacted through rape (verified by a police report) or a botched medical procedure (FSCK OFF, we don't believe you.) The good Christians who send us monthly checks save money and you die in the street. But don't worry, they're not going to collect cash either.
Let's say your daughter's abstinence training fails her. Unless you can demonstrate a verifiable rape (forced, violent sex is a big criteria in Christian care), she won't see a single dime for prenatal care. Medi-Share provides all the fun of writing monthly checks without all those pesky insurace outlays. Why, it's just like having no insurace at all.
Meet Will McClear. He led a good Christian lifestyle until a debilitating injury laid him up. Fortunatly, the injury occured on the job and its treatments were covered by Satan's publically subsidized medical care. During rehabilitation and as a result of inactivity, John added a few too many pounds. That's when type II diabetes set in. Under most health care coverages, each benficiary would be forced to subsidize John's insulin shots but Medi-Share is not most plans. Under our plan, Gluttony is unchristain and uncovered. Can I get a big "fsck you for Jesus?"
--
BDA salutes Diana for the tip.
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By MattC (Monday August 15 2005 @ 11:55AM EDT)
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I have to pick a nit. This is not insurance. It is a communal sharing of health care costs by a non-profit organization. Members vote on what they cover. While it may make you feel smart to make fun of these people, I kind of admire what they've done. Instead of paying for-profit health insurance companies for plans that offer little flexibility and have high costs just to get some catastrophic coverage, they are socializing the costs of non-preventable health problems and *NOT* privatizing any profits.
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By Dyl (Monday August 15 2005 @ 02:43PM EDT)
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While not technically "insurance," it’s functioning as the same thing – a self-funded plan. They’re just limiting their pool more extensively. One wonders if they have reinsurance. One large claim for an ailment they have no ideological objections to (ha ha), and you’re looking at a biblical-based pyramid scheme. The fleecing of the faithful... I have to agree with Jeff, when that abstinence-only plan fails one of their daughters, they’ll be looking for another plan. By then, a pregnancy would be considered a "pre-existing condition" and ineligible for coverage. Having regular insurance is so often like having no insurance...
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By MattC (Monday August 15 2005 @ 03:54PM EDT)
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Sorry it is not functioning the same as insurance. It isn't run by a third party - members run the group, not a for-profit corporation, there is no regulatory requirements, and it does not assume liability for your bills. The home page clearly states "Medi-Share is not insurance."
What this is is a group of people who are going to socialize their non-preventable health care costs, and they are doing so voluntarily with others who live a similar lifestyle (low risk, extremely conservative health choices). They agree that they will only share burden for certain things. While you may not approve of their voluntary membership in this group and the list of for what they agree to share costs, they do not need other approval nor do they coerce people into joining.
Yes the money could run out, but that is a clearly documented risk. Rather than fund profittable insurance companies that are abused by other clients and health care providers, they prefer to accept the risk that a community of people with the same lifestyle will share certain costs.
The Health Insurance industry is a major racket. Until recently I had little choice but to pay large premiums for defined service, which was more than I would ever need or use. Congress has at least given us the HSA so I can opt for a low premium, high deductible plan and then pay out of pocket (tax free) for my minimal costs. The problem still exists though that I don't get the racket rate on prescriptions that comes with the high premium plan. Since having an HSA though, that advantage is traded for the tax advantage.
I do admire the lifestyle plan in theory. I would like to only socialize my health care costs with people who maintain a certain amount of physical activity and are not obese, not drug addicts or chronic abusers (including tobacco), do not engage in risky behavior (or have seperate coverage for it), etc.
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By Dyl (Monday August 15 2005 @ 04:15PM EDT)
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The health insurance industry is a racket – no question. Large health insurance companies do a fine job weeding out the unhealthy and adding clauses to avoid large claims and maximize their bottom line. Anything that bucks that system would be welcome, but the unsavory-ness of the characters involved in this particular option leaves a really bad taste in my mouth.
While in theory I might agree with a lifestyle plan, health is a funny thing. One day you’re a professional bicyclist, the next week/month you find you have cancer that nearly kills you. A lifestyle plan eliminates some risk, but certainly not all. I’d be surprised if something like this exists long term for precisely this reason – a few large cancer-related claims, a child (born in wedlock, of course) with major medical problems, and suddenly your members get a big fsck you from Jesus. Defined risk? Sure.
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By MattC (Tuesday August 16 2005 @ 08:44AM EDT)
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I have a hunch that health insurance providers spend a lot more money treating preventable problems than they do the rare case of cancer or a child with a birth defect. So these folks may be betting with the odds, not against.
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By Jeff (Tuesday August 16 2005 @ 09:42AM EDT)
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And I have a hunch that Christian Care Ministry is getting fat off the gullibility of others.
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By MattC (Tuesday August 16 2005 @ 09:49AM EDT)
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They are not for profit, so if someone is skimming funds, it is fraud. You should contact a DOJ Attorney....
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By Jeff (Tuesday August 16 2005 @ 10:10AM EDT)
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Uhm, It's called "administrative overhead."
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By MattC (Tuesday August 16 2005 @ 10:25AM EDT)
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I forgot, it's always some kind of conspiracy.
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By Jes G (Friday September 09 2005 @ 03:51PM EDT)
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I work with Medi-Share. Can I answer some questions:
to Dyl - MEdi-Share does have reinsurance. Members are covered up to 1 million per year for five years.
to Jeff - you didn't say Medi-Share doesn't cover cancer; but it does. Since they started back in 93 they've shared in well over $150 million in member needs. Last year it was about 40 million. Medi-Share has over 50,000 memebers, but it's paren't company TCCM offers other programs.
Dyl- The "few cancner cases" that you believe would sink Medi-Share would be provided for by our stop loss insurance which kicks in for member costs pasts $50,000.
Jef - you have a hunch that CCM is getting fat off of the gullibility of others... others who have had 50, 100, 200+ thousand dollars in medical needs shared (covered). Please explain your hunch and where you got it from. The problem might be that you are so used to living a world where people do evil things unless controlled by the law that you couldn't believe any group or program exists out there that could do such a thing honestly. I don't blame you for this becuase there are hundreds, thousands of people masquerading in the name of "Jesus Christ" and all they talk about is money, money, miracles... and if you want god to bless your life, exercise faith by giving to our ministry. (If you say it with a country accent its more convincing) Fortunatly, smart people like you see past the scammers on so called Christian TV and radio... smart people like you go to the source. They open the Bible, learn some Hebrew and Greek and get to studying. They consider philosophy, since , statistics, and the evidences for God's existence and the ressurection of Jesus Christ. Smart people like you ask themselves why university professors who have forgotten more quantum mechanics than we ever learned are turning to Christ at a rapid rate since 1990 and why anthony Flew - one of the worlds leading atheist philosophers has now given up athiesm for deism. Smart people like you never do intolerant things like say Fsck Jesus - thereby revealing their profound intelligence and sagacity. Futhermore since most smart people are crying for universal tolerance they would never turn around themselves and say such intolerant things like Fsck Jesus. That would be hypocracy. But we know all hypocrites are in churches.
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By Gordo (Friday January 06 2006 @ 01:52PM EST)
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I think its a great idea personally. Oh, and if they don't want to cover obese people - more power to them! Since when is it an excuse to become obese just because you are injured? If I was bedridden, I wouldn't eat myself into obesity.
And if you think your kid might become sexually active, and might incur big expenses as a result, you should buy a high deductible "standard" insurance policy.
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By Wild Child (Friday January 06 2006 @ 02:14PM EST)
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THE BEST ALTERNATIVE MIGHT BE A COMBINATION OF TRADITIONAL/ SHARING/ SAVING
Samaritan Ministries recommends a combination approach to health care coverage: Combine the medical sharing plan with a high deductible major medical policy as a backup for any catastrophic medical needs. That is a good approach.
AN EVEN BETTER TWIST ON THIS COMBINATION APPROACH IS TO ADD A SAVINGS PLAN TO COVER DEDUCTIBLES, DENTAL, ETC. This plan was described to me by a pastor as follows:
“I recently took a church near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. In preparing for the move I talked to several Pastors about the insurance coverage they had. Through this, I was able to set up a program that I feel is the best value for my family and the church. I use a combination of Samaritan Ministries International and Mutual of Omaha to provide major medical care. Here is a breakdown:
“The church gives me $100 a week for a total of $400 a month. I place this money in a church account called Pastor's Medical.
“Samaritan Ministries (not to be confused with Good Samaritan) gets $120 a month for their program (which covers me up to $100,000.). Mutual of Omaha gets $35 a month for a 100K deductible major medical policy (100k to 1 Million coverage). The balance ($245) stays and builds in the account to be used for things that are not covered in the above policies.
“Covered incidents that are more than $300 are sent directly to Samaritan Ministries. They pay the bill. Office visits, medications, dental, eye care, etc. are paid as they are required out of the account portion.
“If the Lord blesses us with good health, and the medical account builds up, I can take a portion and move it into an IRA or something else tax deferred if I wish. It's our money to use as we see fit. Note that dental is hardly never covered by Blue Cross Blue Shield, but this covers it. No co-pays to worry about either.
“This combination plan is absolutely terrific and recommended to me by three pastors who are also using this method.”
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By Fat Cat (Tuesday April 10 2007 @ 01:17PM EDT)
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Thanks Jeff! I was researching Christian Medi-Share against other mainstream insurance plans. I specifically went looking for online complaints against Medi-share. I've been looking for 2 hours and haven't found any yet - at least none for incidents that wouldn't clearly be excluded when reviewing the guidelines. Your efforts have backfired. Instead of helping your cause, your immature use of "FSCK You from Jesus" and your inability to support your assertions, I've decided that we will be joining Christian Medi-sure. Thanks again!!!!
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By Bill (Wednesday August 29 2007 @ 12:25PM EDT)
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Jeff...my friend. You have some good points, but chill brotha'. It's okay not all Christians are bad.
We had medi-share and it is not a good plan whether you or your family is living the Christian lifestyle or not. There are much better deals out there that will protect your family. For example, they will not cover my wife's women's wellness check ups and numerous other issues we have had with our three year old. We have a three year old that has been to the doctor at least 12 times in the last two years, and medishare did not cover a dime because each incident was right under $250. If it is the same incident they might cover it but, you have to prove that through a pain-staking process. In the last two years $8048 has been paid to medi-share, and not one incident has been covered, and my wife has not had a physical in two years.
Medi-share is a way to have false peace of mind while saving money.
I will not be as crude as Jeff, but he has good points, and I do not recommend it to others.
I do know several people that have been helped by the medishare plan throuhg a pain staking process and tons of stress, but the bottom-line is you basically stop going to the doctor because you know medi-share won't cover the incident unless it is catrosrphic, and doctors want their money up front because it is not insurance. Having a catrostrophic issue means freaking out becasue you know the hospital won't take it, and you have to finagle your way through the system to get care, and they will list you as someone who is uninsured.
Their list of reasons not to cover is long and yes, Jeff is right, if they deem it to not fall under a "Christian Lifestyle Choice" you will be denied coverage.
We had the plan for two years, and it is bad plan. Yes you will save money, but at the end of the year especially if you have little ones, it is not going to be much over what you would have paid through a regular well accepted insurance plan that has $15.00 doctor visits and $8.00 prescriptions which is what we have now.
On the issue of non-profits. For those who are not aware, a non-profit only means you cannot distribute shares, and dividends are not paid out. It doesn't mean you can't make a ton of money and pay it out to your executive staff, or invest it. You can still give bonuses under a non-profit status.
Non-profit does not mean, not making a profit. It means you can't divy profits up and give them out to shareholders or investors. CEO of non-profits can be paid as much or more than for profit corporations.
From my experiance I will not recommend medi-share after being a customer for two years.
I think you are taking a major risk with the health of your family to save money.
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By Not Ttam (Wednesday September 12 2007 @ 07:08PM EDT)
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I was just solicited to join medi-share. My review of their practices and complaints against them lead me to the conclusion that while well-intentioned - joining up could be a catastrophic choice for a family. It has all the hallmarks of a Ponzi-Scheme or Pyramid scheme as well righht down to the making you jump through hoop after hoop after hoop to get reimbursed. Any medical coverage group that requires unreasonable documentation and multiple submissions for payout is not going to help your average family be they Christian or not. I wish them well but will continue to get my coverage elsewhere and I recommend any family with kids do the same. God helps those who help themselves and He expects us to use discernement. I have discerned that at least my family is better off with other coverage. I can't make that decision for others but I do urge them to be careful and not be blinded by the invocation of His name.
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By Not Ttam (Wednesday September 12 2007 @ 07:16PM EDT)
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Oh yea, and The State of Illinois found that just because they say they aren't an insurance company doesn't mean they can't be held t the same standards. They found that since they pay out climas as if they were insurence, they therefore were selling insurance and so on and so forth and they are now forbidden to sell their services in that state. That comes from a filing by Michael T. McRaith, Director ofthe Illinois Division of Insurance. Go here for the actual wording:
www.idfpr.com/doi/pressRelease/ pr07/06112007ChristianCareMediShareFinalOrder.pdf
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By Scary Hippie (Friday October 19 2007 @ 11:02AM EDT)
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Anything that the communist state of Illinois may find or say is hardly worth believing. I know, I live in Illinois. The Gov. is wanting state health care like Hillary Clinton is wanting it for the world. I joined Medi-Share in 1994 and they have paid for 2 surgeries, a baby being born, broken limbs, very bad sickness and other things. The only thing that I don't like is that I have to go to a doctor or hospital that is in the program or I don't get back all my expenses. Most of it but not all. But still, I have saved thousands over the years so it is not that big of a deal. Also, I know that people are praying for me when my family has medical issues.
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By Toes Go In First (Thursday September 27 2007 @ 08:12PM EDT)
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Bill, please tell me the name of the "insurance plan that has $15.00 doctor visits and $8.00 prescriptions" for around $4000 a year for a family with children...I need that.
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By Angel Witch (Thursday October 25 2007 @ 04:44PM EDT)
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Hi Bill, I am in the market for medical coverage, but every thing I am finding is very exorbitant and lacking the kind of coverage I am looking for. Would truly appreciate info on the coverage you have - $15.00 doctors visit and $8.00 prescription coverage. As christians let us share. Thanks.
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By Joey Ramone (Thursday October 25 2007 @ 04:44PM EDT)
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Hi Bill, I am in the market for medical coverage, but every thing I am finding is very exorbitant and lacking the kind of coverage I am looking for. Would truly appreciate info on the coverage you have - $15.00 doctors visit and $8.00 prescription coverage. As christians let us share. Thanks.
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By Super Fly (Thursday October 25 2007 @ 04:44PM EDT)
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Hi Bill, I am in the market for medical coverage, but every thing I am finding is very exorbitant and lacking the kind of coverage I am looking for. Would truly appreciate info on the coverage you have - $15.00 doctors visit and $8.00 prescription coverage. As christians let us share. Thanks.
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By Ladies Man (Friday October 26 2007 @ 03:03PM EDT)
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Ok I've been an insurance broker for over 25 years, I'm also a Christian.
Two weeks ago I applied to Medi-Share's health plan. Yesterday their rep calls and says because of good health I am on the fast track. This morning I receive a call from a Medi-Share rep and they want me to get lab work (at my expense). Why I ask? It is because 36 years ago you had a one month bout of hepatitis. In the past 36 years I've had many different health insurance plans, I've had blood taken for life insurance ($500,000 policy) and got the preferred rate. Insurance is about risk, risk management and sharing of risk. Medi-share is insurance. Now, should it be taxed like an insurance company? I'm not sure but I have a feeling their books will show some of that good old non-profit - profit.
Here's my problem with them. When the interview nurse started with "have you ever had", I told the nurse to me, an insurance guy, that is a red flag. In many States the modern question is, within the past 5 years. Have you ever is a wide, wide, wide open door to deny future claims. I'm 55 years old and over the past 55 years I've seen doctors and probably for things I can't remember anymore. The big diagnosis yes but what about the person that 25 years ago went to a Dr for a nagging 3 week cough. They forget it, they come down with esophageal cancer, the Medi-Share people find the records for the long forgotten three week cough and point out that it was a pre-cursor to throat cancer. Claim denied!!! Becasue these Medi-Share is not regulated, boom you're out and no legal recourse. Hm????
So back to the Hepatitus thing. Once you have contracted Hep you can never give blood because it is always present in your blood. SO I am not sure what they want because they wanted a Hepatitus test. My 86 year old mother says that I was too honest and most people wouldn't have told about the hep they had 36 years ago. Maybe so but that's not me. So to me, an insurance guy, what I see from Medi-Share is what we call "cherry picking". If they have a problem with something that took place 36 years ago, what else can you call? Plus their "have you ever" question is a big red flag.
I am out my $50 app fee but it was a cheap education on Medi-Share. Becuase if they are going to micro-underwrite to such a degree, what will they do with a $70,000 cancer claim or $100,000 heart problem?
Now that I think about it I do believe that Medi-Share is indeed acting as a shadow insurance company, walled well behind their 501(c)(3) status.
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By DDT-WEBKINZ (Wednesday November 07 2007 @ 01:26AM EST)
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I thought that the WTO would be a good start for transforming the process of government at least across national borders. I quite like the idea of using the secretariat of the WTO as the centre for a Wikipedia of trade - a sort of open source world government at least for a very specific and complicated issue which needs many brains to provide a solution.
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By DDT-WEBKINZ (Wednesday November 07 2007 @ 01:27AM EST)
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I thought that the WTO would be a good start for transforming the process of government at least across national borders. I quite like the idea of using the secretariat of the WTO as the centre for a Wikipedia of trade - a sort of open source world government at least for a very specific and complicated issue which needs many brains to provide a solution.
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By yiqhc kwvsqfc (Saturday November 10 2007 @ 11:04AM EST)
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eonc rzmxhdjg liuozh oihqray wqmpxkn nfgvwblcd gocymut
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By Mojo Rising (Friday November 30 2007 @ 12:49PM EST)
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I would not recommend CCMS. Here's my story. My husband and I signed up 12/05. We're in our 40s, very healthy. CCMS 'premiums' went from $297 to $345 to $367 to $495. So to-date we've spent around $8500. We have never received one penny from CCMS. My mammograms, paps, etc. have not been covered. My husband and I try to not go to the Dr. because we know we'll have to pay. It's sad, but true. Here's the icing on the cake. Last month my Dr. told me I needed a hysterectomy. The stress of jumping through hoops to get CCMS to share the cost of the procedure was definitely not a Christian experience. CCMS will not cover the $13,000 in bills. They say it was a pre-existing condition, which is funny because my Dr. says it's not. My Dr. faxed documents to CCMS, but they still denied my claim. I've considered appealing, but the thought of additional stress is too much. I'd rather spend my time researching another medical provider - a secular insurance company who is accountable to the state insurance commissioner. CCMS has no accountability. There is no recourse when they don't pay. I'm not giving them one more dime.
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By Rev. Francis Bartley (Saturday February 09 2008 @ 10:53PM EST)
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I do not have any problem with Christian Care Medi-share other than it's claim to be a ministry based on Biblical principles. If I could have a voice with them, (which is impossible) I would beg them in the name of Christ to change their name to simply Medi-share and drop the pretense that they are a Christian non-prophet ministry. They do not need to claim faith to do what they are doing. Yet, by claiming faith they damage the name of Christ.
While it may even be a great idea for young healthy families, there is nothing Biblical about it. Their claim to carry than banner of, Galatians 6:2."Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ." is just simply a distinct misunderstanding of the passage and its intention. Their exclusiveness does not line up with Christ’s teaching on the matter of helping others. Actually, this kind of exclusiveness is just exactly what Christ disliked about the powers to be in the Temple structure of his time. Simply put, I believe that the people who created Christian Care Medi-Share are operate with the same heart as the Pharisees. While they believe they are good their hearts are hard to the truth of Christ. They are pretenders to the claim of Christ's love, and extension of mercy and benevolence and should be treated as hypocrites. We need to pray for them. But make no claim to be apart of them. We need to pray that some day they will be able to see how their efforts are really against Christ's teachings. How their work has been truly anti-Christ.
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By Heidi Hall (Monday May 05 2008 @ 04:22PM EDT)
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I have not read ALL the blogs posted yet but I have read some of both positive and negative ones so far. My mother-in-law and father-in-law have been using it for several years and when my mother-in-law was diagnosed with stage 4 ovarian cancer 7 years ago they did nothing less than call Her up and suggest very cutting edge "optional" treatments along with whatever her or her doctor would want to try. They prayed w her and some things required her to pay up front but she always was reimbursed. It is not necessarily cheap but it offers a lot more options for conditions and treatments that traditional "insurance" never would. Also my daughter who is 15 was told she had to be in a program they offer called "initiative program" to be accepted because she is about 50 pounds overwieght. The program links you w a health /nutrition specialist that works with you and helps you get healthy. their goal is to come alongside you and help you not hurt you. It is so sad that so many people carry around such bitterness and anger!!
Heidi
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By Heidi Hall (Monday May 05 2008 @ 04:27PM EDT)
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Sorry - the initiative program is actually called "restore" program.
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By Days of the New (Thursday June 26 2008 @ 06:53PM EDT)
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as a catholic, (who is used to being persecuted in some sectors) I am wondering if anyone who has had problems with CCMM is also
catholic (ccm being mostly evangelical in origin)? I am not making any statements either way... just wondering...
Also, it seems like some are helped, some not--what gives? Are we getting all of the
facts?
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By Elizabeth (Thursday July 03 2008 @ 09:28PM EDT)
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My son has autism, they just told me no-can-do. Oh, but what about the rest of your family, would you like to sign the others up? What an insult. Jesus said, "Let the children come to me", he didn't say, "except the imperfect ones".
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By Days of the New (Sunday July 06 2008 @ 03:14PM EDT)
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Elizabeth, my condolences, this situation
sums it up for me. I can see CCMS not wanting to share with those who have or partake in destructive behaviors like the many "isms", fornications, etc..., but so much for a Christian idea of "sharing". Your son is not responsible for the autism. Do they have an excuse, like blaming vaccinations or something else? It's not like your son would cost them anything else because they only claim to cover non-routine/emergency needs over $250.
**Is there anyone from CCMS who can defend
the organization from this claim and the one
with the hysterectomy?? Please, in Jesus' name, please speak up and answer to these claims--I need to see what you have to say. My family is in the process of making decisions regarding "insurance" choices. Also, What about so-called, "administrative fees",and what about never being diagnosed
for a problem, yet your reviewers possibly deciding that the condition was pre-existing. The favor of a reply would be much appreciated. Thanks.
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Enlighten me, Marge
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The most formidable weapon against errors of any kind is reason.
-- Thomas Paine
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We Did Our Job!
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